>> right now, we really need to focus on finding what works best for me. >> and for lauren, she's still working it on the dance floor. >> as far as giving up body building, i don't think i ever left it or gave it up, i've just moved through it. it's a sport and it's competitive and these girls they get obsessed with it and they do whatever it takes. >> twisted sisters, we are. gay marriage, an american right? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. let me start with this.

today, the united states supreme court said they would take up same sex marriage. this is an astounding part of history and in the 18th century and continues through this 21st. is it institutional for a state to deny people of the same sex the right to marry under the law. let's consider the 14th amendment. nor shall any state deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of law or any person within its jurisdiction to equal protection of the laws. justice anthony ken and his majority opinion of the lawrence case in 2003 which declared anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional. does the statute make it a crime for persons of the same sex to engage in intimate sexual conduct, violate the due process clause? yes. a statute making it a crime for two persons of the same sex to engage in sexual conduct violates the due process law. quote liberty protects the person from unwarranted government intrusions and

freedom extends beyond spatial bounds, liberty presumes an autonomy of self-that includes freedom of thought, belief and expression. that certain intimate conduct the defendants are adults and their ability to declare the issue as one related to the right of engaging in certain sexual conduct de means the claim the claimant brought forward. what a story. joining me now, chad griffin and gay rights advocate, elizabeth bench. i hope i set it up the best i can. i can't write the majority opinion next year. your thoughts? >> i couldn't have said it better. it is an incredible day the supreme court is taking the prop 8 case as well as the doma case. when this case was filed almost four years ago, the prop 8 case, we made the case in court.

in this country, we don't deny our citizens a fundamental right. the supreme court has called marriage a fundamental right no less than 14 times in this country. i'm optimistic once the court hears this doma case they will come down on freedom and libberality as they have. >> elizabeth, i haven't seen you in a while. equal protection of the laws. >> if you are gay and alive in our time in america, we're living in a kind of a policy and civil rights renaissance. we have seen extraordinary leadership from other parts of government already. we -- don't we judge presidents by whether they stand tube the moment of history in which they live. we have seen president obama step up to this issue, gay

marriage. >> "don't ask, don't tell" now saying he won't enforce doma. >> our military has stepped up. >> even the marines are doing a great job. >> even the marines are. now, we have to see, will the supreme court also keep pace in our time with the other major institutions. >> chad, you're the export. i supported it, my wife has for years. hrc, you have a hell of a great name, human rights campaign, great name. >> life, liberty and property cannot be denied except by due process of law. you have to break a law to lose your liberty. it has to be a crime. you can't be denied liberty, your thoughts on that issue and how that can be used in this constitution. >> that's exactly right. is there no state right. the plaintiffs in this case, the fundamental right to marriage. chris, oftentimes, we get lost a bit talking about these things, talking about the politics and law. at the end of the day, there are

fundamental lives at stake. when we filed this case, chris and sandy and jeff and paul had been together 10 years and now almost 12 years. chris and sandy's twin boys were just entering high school. when this case is heard, they'll be getting ready to graduate from high school. their moms deserve the same freedom to marry just as everyone else has in this country. >> isn't it true when we had this in the court at the appellate forward nobody came forward because nobody could come up with a justification, compelling reason. you raised it. there's no compelling reason against giving the right to people the right to marriage. >> that's exactly right. important to note in both of these cases, the united states government has refused to defend doma, the federal law before this court. when we filed the case in california, as one has to do, we sued the governor at the time, arnold schwarzenegger and our attorney general at the time, jerry brown, the current governor. both responded by refusing to defend the case and ultimately joined our signed the case and

said it was fundamentally and unconstitutional law and they weren't going to defend it. the judge in our case. chief judge von walker, who wrote that historic ruling in this case allowed the intervening defendants, proponents of prop 8 to enter vene and defend the case. in the doma case, the small group on capitol hill at the house have come together and defending it because the federal government won't. at the end of the day, this is unconstitutional and everyone knows it. >> a day of history. it can be a major moment. look what tom goldstein, a very respected blog wrote last week. i have never before seen cases i believed would be discussed 200 years from now. bush v gore. the government's search to prohibit a loving couple to marry and refuse to recognize such a marriage is profound and such is the opposite claim that five justices can read the constitution and strip the

people of the power governing a social institution. not like year talking rock of age. we have nine states that have done it. this past election i think is very pivotal. four states did it completely by popular vote. no court ruling on rights, public will. >> for the first time in 40 years, in four states, thanks to efforts of chad and a lot of other people, for the first time, there was a populous vote and the people spoke. they have never spoken in favor before. they're are really two ways, also equal pro-tukz tection und law and a fundamental right. this is an extraordinary time. >> two questions. one is doma, defense of marriage act. this administration won't defend it in the courts. if that gets struck down, what does that say to cases where people have been allowed to marry in the same gender.

what happens if doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4, whatever. >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone. >> what would it mean to a person married? >> that would bemean couples married in those states would be recognized by the federal government. would mean we still have a lot of work to do and depending how they rule in the prop 8 case we still need other states to move forward with the right to marry. >> an honor to have you on and elizabeth, glad to have you back in a much bigger studio now. the republican establishment at war with his crazy wing, said they lost election because i ideologues pulled mitt romney too far to the right. wrong says the right ring, we lost because mitt romney wasn't right wing enough. the winner will determine whether the gop returns to the center or becomes a more fringy

party. two people get in the room. the president and the leader of the opposition, john boehner, should be interesting. they may be closer to an agreement than we think. the question, can they sell the deal to their bases? saying republicans may change after the election and they are, changing the rules and some proposing republicans in pennsylvania and three other states obama won, they're trying to eliminate the winner take all system of awarding electoral votes. why not? that way republicans can win electoral votes in states they lose. a good deal. new jersey governor chris christie finally meets his idol that he's seen in concert more than 100 times. the governor and "the boss" bruce springsteen. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and may have surface pores where bacteria can grow and multiply. polident is specifically designed to clean dentures daily. its unique micro-clean formula

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welcome back to "hardball."

he here's one of the easiest predictions after any election, the republican party will split in two. on one side, you have establishment, john boehner and mitch mcconnell. to them, the election was lost because the conservative ideologues pulled him so right he could never find his way back in november. on the other side, jim demint, rick santorum and the industrial complex that make the same argument ideologues always make when they lose, the problem our guy wasn't ideological enough. the problem is going out in technicolor with demint bolting out to become the ceo of the conservative movement. joining me is the former head of the rnc and joy reed, managing editor of rio.com, also one of us. this is what happens when you go near the misery index, the rush limbaugh show.

yesterday, jim demint, still the united states senator from south carolina and the out-going heritage foundation president dent and rush made fun of the speaker. let's listen. >> well, i think it's safe to say boehner is not forcing either of you guys out, right? >> that's pretty true. it might work a little bit the other way, rush. >> what do you make of that? it might work a little bit the other way. an out-going united states senator not being very out-going about the speaker of the house saying he might lose his job because demint is going to the heritage foundation. explain that. >> actually, there's no connection there. that's just idle banter with rush limbaugh. in reality the speaker will be back in charge. he's negotiating right now with the president. >> why clip the speaker? >> it's setting the stage for what's to come. he will go out, has a new platform, an elevated voice, if

you will, not 1 of 100, representing a lot of conservative voices around the country. the thing to be careful about here is, you know, you talked about the split within the part. i that split has been here a while, not just after the election, goes back a number of years and not about some ideologic ideological, i'm more conservative than you put those core principles that really revolve around the economic realities this country has to face. >> what's to fight about? >> the fight is about who gets to articulate it and decide. >> just personnel? >> not so much personnel as personali personality. >> looking at it from across the aisle, i know you're moss progressive to put it lightly. here's the story. you have demint to mitch mcconnell to his right almost beating him the last time around, trying to move him to the right, and candidates and whackier ones like kristin

o'donnell around the country trying to get somebody several notches to the right of what we have in the senate. bob bennett, not right wing enough, john mccain. their idea of right wing is way out and the leader of them all is this guy leaving the senate. how do you see it? >> this is the place where the conservative movement and the republican party oftentimes part ways. jim demint has been the burr in the bonnet of mitch mcconnell people on the left think of as this hard right in trtransigenty who said his top priority was making barack obama a one term president. mitch mcconnell is like john boehner and old time deal-maker, old-fashioned. people like jim demint can't stand people like that. they feel the party has become too easy to change. remember they were screaming bloody murder, the democrats and thought the president had done that and they feel john boehner had lost that negotiations and

want the party further and further to the right. what demint specializes is doing is trying to push the party further and further to the out-skirts. >> what do you think? >> i think there is some truth to that. what is interesting to me, during the bush years, where were these voices when the spending was going on. there's a certain level of disingenuous there. you have to be careful of making a broad brush. >> if you were back in your old job as rmy chair and may be back there again, what would you do? would you build a logger out there to fight the -- or say, the future of the republican party is dead center conservative. not fringe, not going over. >> we're a center right party much like the country. >> i don't agree with that. the country is center right. it just voted. it just voted for obama. >> that's another show. we'll have that conversation.

the country is center right in a large measure sure? we can't have another arithmetic system. >> this is not about the math, facts and realities. the number is 51% of the people identify themselves as pro-life. i'd say that's a little center right. >> no, they support the right -- they don't -- >> that's another show. >> they don't believe in outlawing abortion and support life. >> self-identify as pro-life. let's move on. the point is this. >> no. i can't move on. >> an amendment failed in mississippi. >> the people are pro-choice. when it comes to values, they may be conservative against abortion. >> we can't go any further, michael, i respect you so much. you said the country is center right and your evidence of that is obama won? what evidence do you have? >> i'm talking about on those issues the conservative movement will be talking to the country about.

>> taxing the rich, they're against that. >> there are individual ins out there they can appeal to. my point is broadly speaking you cannot lump -- what demint is doing is saying this gaggle of conservatives will be following behind. the split is much more than you think it is within the party. that has to be reconciled, to be honest and to your point and your question about what would i say, i would say, look, understand where the -- >> you're center right and you think the country is. >> understand where the country is. that's where you need to be. >> on the rush limbaugh show yesterday, demint, the senator from south carolina just quit said conservative's problem is not their message, their problem is getting the message out. let's listen. >> i think the problem is, as conservatives, we have not taken enough control of our message and our ideas and communicated them directly to the american people. that's what we want to do at heritage. >> don't you love the way he

chews on that togy? not that there's anything wrong with it. you're back here again. every party that loses an election, the ideological wing of that party always says you didn't get your message across. if they only could hear clearly what you're saying. do you buy that? >> yeah. it's the packaging. jim demint has been saying this a long time. not what's in the box, the packaging. look what he did in marco rubio, a perfect study of what he specializes in. take a guy latino. say to latinos, look at this guy, he's brown like you. when he starts to speak he has to say the same doctrine script, party line, against the dream act. marco rubio was for privatizing social security, remember that? he's for all the same stuff the american people are rejecting idea-wise but can put it in a nicer package. that's what jim demint has been trying to do. >> how do you say self-deportation in spanish? >> i don't think there's a term

for it. >> i won't go there. i think, to joy's point, she makes a good one, i think the reality for the gop right now is no longer about the packaging. it really is about the substance of the argument. >> a center right party. >> the substance of the argument you have to make to the american people. we can disagree or agree whether the country is center right or center left, we have to be where the country is the speed spot o speed -- sweet spot. >> can i give you advice? run chris christie. christie against clinton, one person very polite and the other -- wow -- >> speaking of chris christie gets what he wanted his whole life. this guy is a regular guy in some ways ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. hanging out with.

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welcome back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. first, governor chris christie is an outrageous bruce springsteen fan, been to over 100 of his concerts but self-proclaimed liberal springsteen hasn't returned to love. and last night talked about meeting him on the tele-con for sandy. >> i was on the stage with max weinberg and all of a sudden they were looking behind me and moved away and stopped talking and i turned around and there he was. >> there he was. >> he came up and put his hand out. i shook his hand. i tried to be cool, and i wasn't. then he said, come on, give me a hug! i said, all right. i hugged him. >> you go, come on, stop, let me

go! >> no. that's always hard to judge, right, when do you stop the man hug. it's hard. >> did you give him -- you have to give also, this pat or did you just go slow dance? >> no, i went slow dance. >> you got to be kidding. >> i went slow dance, i did. >> no pat? i went slow dance. but -- but then he said the most amazing thing to me. he said, it's official, we're friends. >> wow. >> that's nice. that's nice. >> sounds like getting a knighthood, a jersey knighthood. next, remember this from the final days of the presidential campaign? >> i will come on "morning joe" and i will shave off my moustache of 40 years if we lose any of those three states. >> that's right, our old friend and obama advisor david axelrod was so confident obama would win pennsylvania, michigan and pennsylvania he bet his own moustache. obama won those states and he

soon turned the bet with joe scarborough to raise money kind the stalash the stash. it's to earn money for epilepsy. thanks to joe and mika, they earned the money and here's joe today. >> i've been staring at it for 40 years, i was up all night to be honest. it's a little unsettling. >> here you can see side by side, before and after footage. what do you think? that's "hardball" for now. coming up next. your businessicity j.j. ra that's truly advanced, not need much explanation at all ? with the nokia lumia 822 on verizon, there's not much to learn because it's powered by windows... to let you do more than you ever imagined on your smartphone. exclusively with data sense-- a feature that makes the most of your plan.

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